JoeA
Now that I understand (?) the basics of the 100 A 10 position automatic transfer switch, supplied with 5502, I have to protest that it should be advertised as a 70 Amp switch.
While the ATS contacts, etc, *may* be rated at 100 A, (I have no way to tell), the wire size and max breaker size that supply the panel are rated at 70 A.
I realize this seems to be an "industry standard" way of describing this switch. Even the Siemens manual (Part No. 0G1787 Revision 0 (06/01/06) claims it is a 100 A switch. How Siemens is related to Generac is not clear to me at this time.
Anyway, I am not particularly comfortable with only being able to transfer
70 A of load, when I was expecting 100 A capability.
Anyone else feel that way?
joe a.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
The "100-amp" switch is rated to be able to switch and deliver 100 amperes (at 240VAC) to the loads.
Is your generator rated to deliver 100 amperes? The answer is simple - no. It is rated for 37.5 amperes on Natural Gas and 41.6 amperes on LP. The internal breaker (in the generator, protecting the cables feeding the transfer switch) is a 45-amp breaker. These ratings are the maximum continuous current levels that can be delivered by the generator.
The reason that the supplied wiring is smaller than that needed for a generator delivering 100 amps (minimum size is #2 AWG THHN wire - wire size based on NEC 445.13) is cost. Why use wire that is much larger (and far more expensive) than is really needed for a 10KW generator?
Back to an older question - a 50-ampere breaker in your main panel (to feed utility power to the transfer switch) would probably be sufficient for matching the capability of the generator. I would suggest that you do not connect loads into the transfer switch that - when all turned on - exceed the capacity of the generator.
If you need 100-amp service from your generator, you need another generator. It's that simple.
Skip Douglas
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JoeA
SkipD;3234 wrote:
The "100-amp" switch is rated to be able to switch and deliver 100 amperes (at 240VAC) to the loads.
Is your generator rated to deliver 100 amperes? The answer is simple - no. It is rated for 37.5 amperes on Natural Gas and 41.6 amperes on LP. The internal breaker (in the generator, protecting the cables feeding the transfer switch) is a 45-amp breaker. These ratings are the maximum continuous current levels that can be delivered by the generator.
The reason that the supplied wiring is smaller than that needed for a generator delivering 100 amps (minimum size is #2 AWG THHN wire - wire size based on NEC 445.13) is cost. Why use wire that is much larger (and far more expensive) than is really needed for a 10KW generator?
Back to an older question - a 50-ampere breaker in your main panel (to feed utility power to the transfer switch) would probably be sufficient for matching the capability of the generator. I would suggest that you do not connect loads into the transfer switch that - when all turned on - exceed the capacity of the generator.
If you need 100-amp service from your generator, you need another generator. It's that simple.
I appreciate your observations and quick response. And, of course, your reasonable tone.
But I am not sure we are on the "same page".
It is not the capacity of the generator that is the question, to me. It is the capacity of the switch and the panel. If I am not mistaken, the same basic switch, just with more positions (load circuits) is supplied with 2 larger generators. Still limited to 70 Amps.
The output of the 10 KW generator is protected by its own 45 Amp breaker, as you noted and also, one presumes, by governor and regulator circuitry.
I do not need 100 Amp service "from the generator", or even, one hopes, 45 amps. I sized the generator partly on my experience with a 5500 watt portable generator and manual transfer switch. While it supplied all my critical needs, furnace/circpumps, well pump, refrigeration and a few auxiliary circuits, I wanted to cover more circuits and wanted an auto start, auto transfer unit.
I understand that, with the generator running, and the utility supply gone (or Mains breaker open) I am now limited to generator output and cannot exceed 45 amps total, regardless of how large the supply breaker may be. I accept that. It is, after all, an "emergency" generator. And I understand my need to limit total load when under generator power. Not a problem.
However, the point I am making is that, (moving back to an "installation frame of reference) once the selected loads are moved to the generator panel, the total for those loads, from the "utility side" is now limited to 70 Amps. If I exceed that, the input (panel to generator) breaker trips and I lose all loads that were moved to the gen panel. All of them. If I were to put in a 50 amp breaker, then I would be limited to 50 amps, total, on the moved loads.
Or am I still not grasping something?
So, it seems to me that, for the moved loads, I now have to be concerned with limiting my total draw to 70 amps under normal, utility supplied conditions. Or to 50 amps if I use that size breaker.
Thanks again for you assistance and willingness to enlighten me.
joe a.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
All you would have to do to use the full 100-amp capacity of the transfer switch (on the utility power side) is to install a two-pole 100-ampere breaker in the service panel (your main breaker panel) and connect that breaker to the transfer switch with #3 AWG or larger THHN wire.
The problem, though, is that the generator is capable of supplying less than half that energy. You would not want to be drawing 80 or 90 amperes on the utility side when power failed. The generator would get running, the transfer switch would swap over to the generator feed, and then the breaker in the generator would trip out. You'd have no feed whatsoever then.
The best game plan is to choose which branch circuits that you want to move over to the breakers in the transfer switch with a total load (assuming everything will be running at the time of the transfer) of about 40 amperes. Some electrical inspectors will go ballistic if, for example, you hooked up your system to run double the load that the generator can handle.
A manual transfer switch could solve some of the overloading types of problems because you'd have instructions for whoever's doing the transfer to turn off the breakers to heavier loads before transferring to the generator power.
By the way, I don't know if you're running your generator set on natural gas or propane. If it's propane, then you have a little more load capacity headroom.
Skip Douglas
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JoeA
SkipD;3237 wrote:
All you would have to do to use the full 100-amp capacity of the transfer switch (on the utility power side) is to install a two-pole 100-ampere breaker in the service panel (your main breaker panel) and connect that breaker to the transfer switch with #3 AWG or larger THHN wire.
The problem, though, is that the generator is capable of supplying less than half that energy. You would not want to be drawing 80 or 90 amperes on the utility side when power failed. The generator would get running, the transfer switch would swap over to the generator feed, and then the breaker in the generator would trip out. You'd have no feed whatsoever then.
The best game plan is to choose which branch circuits that you want to move over to the breakers in the transfer switch with a total load (assuming everything will be running at the time of the transfer) of about 40 amperes. Some electrical inspectors will go ballistic if, for example, you hooked up your system to run double the load that the generator can handle.
A manual transfer switch could solve some of the overloading types of problems because you'd have instructions for whoever's doing the transfer to turn off the breakers to heavier loads before transferring to the generator power.
By the way, I don't know if you're running your generator set on natural gas or propane. If it's propane, then you have a little more load capacity headroom.
It will be propane. Thanks for your insights. I was considering if changing out the wires was feasible. But, there is no point, as you observed.
Inspectors? Inspectors? We don't need no . . . well, never mind.
Thanks for your comments.
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