Timthebaitman
I'm fixing to hook up the ATS, well one day, but have learned that I need to have seperate neutral and grounds in my panel in my garage. Currently they are not seperate. Do I need to have a new panel installed with seperate bars? What do I need to do? Any idea what kind of service I have? I have 90A breakers out in my service box. I am figureing that while I am having some work done it might as well be brought up to code. What can you tell me? I have XHHW 2/0 wire running from my 90A breakers to the panel in the garage and its about a 75ft run.

Do I put a 70A in to power the ATS like the install instructions say? Its a 13kw on NG. Gererac 43093

Thanks...
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Skip Douglas SkipD
From what I see and read, you may have a system that is not up to current code requirements. I suspect that your electrical inspector will require that the system be brought up to code when modifying the system to add the generator and automatic transfer switch.

If I understand you correctly, your service entrance disconnect is remote from the breaker box you have photographed. If so, the panel that houses the service entrance is the ONLY place in the entire building where the neutral and grounding conductors should be tied together. That would mean that you must add an ungrounded bus bar for all of the neutral conductors in the breaker panel while leaving the equipment ground conductors connected to the grounded bus bar in the breaker panel.

I strongly suggest that you employ a competent licensed electrician as well as a competent licensed plumber for the fuel connection to handle your installation.

You may, like I did, get the electrician to use you as a "helper" and save some expense that way. The electrician I used pulled the permit for my generator installation and dealt with the inspector to get the job signed off. I installed all of the conduit and did a lot of the grunt work myself and, as a result, saved quite a lot of out-of-pocket expenses. The work I did included building the generator mounting pad, separating neutral conductors from equipment grounding conductors in the breaker panel (as my new ATS houses the new service disconnect), helping with mounting the generator and helping with pulling the wiring between the ATS and generator. The electrician, as well as the inspector, approved all the work that I did, but the inspector did not know that I had physically done the work that I did. The electrician assumed the responsibility for the entire installation.
Skip Douglas
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ceb58
Dude, you have one hell-of-a mess.
I stopped counting code violations after the first 5. Do your self a favor and hire a licensed,insured competent electrician to come in and correct the many problems you have.
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ceb58
Timthebaitman;8399 wrote:
I'm fixing to hook up the ATS, well one day, but have learned that I need to have seperate neutral and grounds in my panel in my garage. Currently they are not seperate. Do I need to have a new panel installed with seperate bars? What do I need to do? Any idea what kind of service I have? I have 90A breakers out in my service box. I am figureing that while I am having some work done it might as well be brought up to code. What can you tell me? I have XHHW 2/0 wire running from my 90A breakers to the panel in the garage and its about a 75ft run.

Do I put a 70A in to power the ATS like the install instructions say? Its a 13kw on NG. Gererac 43093

Thanks...


let me back up
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Timthebaitman
Besides the neutral and ground all bring together in teh subpanel, what other violations do you see? I'm curious.. My gas company is coming out tomorrowto look at running the gas.. not planning on blowing my house up..

My attic is open, so I could pull wires or whatever to help on the cost.. I had a guy look at my elec panel today that couldnt believe it was installed in 88 ans didnt have a seperate neutral bar and no 4th wire.. Its not as simple as getting a piece of white to run from the service panel to the inside panel and replacing the inside panel with a new one with seperate grounds?

What would need to be done?
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ceb58
[URL="http://zillerelectric.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=189&d=1297149001"][/URL]

In am attempt to from a pm to clarify some of the code violations. Looking at the service entrance panel first and using the 2008 NEC. And I will paraphrase some of the code.
310.12 C conductors that are intended to be used as ungrounded conductors shall be marked. They did not re-identify the white conductors on the 2-2 Pole breakers.
300.16 B Bushings. There is no bushing or other protection where the wireing leaves the box.
It looks as if that is NM-B (romex) running from the panel out the left side to something,timer?
334.12 B 4 not to be used in damp or wet locations
250.20 B 1 It looks as if the grounding conductor from the branch circuit. on breaker #10 is not bonded to the grounding bar

In the other shots of the sub panel.
The feeders to the sub panel should have been 4 wire 250.30 A
Other violations that I am too tired to look up:)
Separating the grounded(neutral) conductor and landing it under two terminal screws
More that one grounded conductor under one terminal.
The grounding conductors can have more than one under one terminal but most mfg. instruction limit you to 2-14 or 2-12, larger they state only one. 110.3 B
Another 310.12 C re-identifying a ungrounded conductor
I cannot tell what brand panel it is but it looks as if a Square D tandem breaker was installed which could be another 110.3 B violation if the breaker is not listed for the panel.
IMHO the OP has many code violations that need to be addressed by an electrician. This has gone beyond a simple weekend DIY project
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