Zomarconi
Hi All,

1 have a brand new 10kw Guardian with evol 2.0 controller and 100 A transfer switch with load shed module
issue:
  • When generator is set to automatic and normal power is present, transfer switch activates
  • it will keep cycling from gen power to utility
  • Network broadcasting not working either, so can't do a firmware update if needed
Checks so far:
  • N1 N2 & T1 fuses O.K
  • checked voltages at fuses and getting 120V
  • re-checked control wiring and all going to right places

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
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78buckshot
Disconnect wire at terminal #23 in the transfer switch, it's one of the smaller control wires, transfer switch should go to utility position and stay in that state. Once you have it stabilized I would turn the generator to the "OFF" position and disconnect all of the control wires and check each one for shorts to ground, shorts to each other, correct termination on both ends.
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Cobranut

I wonder if your N1 & N2 circuits might be connected to the generator sourced side of the transfer switch instead of the utility?

Has it ever worked correctly?

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Zomarconi
Did the following today:
  • checked for shorts and continuity on all control wires. All good
  • checked voltage on N1 & N2 all the way from utility supply to connector at controller. getting 120V on each.
  • swapped out evol controller and did a firmware update
  • fuses all good 
  • did notice a loose connection on N1 at the utility connection that was giving a bit of a voltage drop. re-crimped, but no change.
outcome:
  • was able to get wifi going on new controller which was a bonus for the day!
  • genset still wants to start when utility power is present, but transfer switch not operating at all unless I pull out wire 23 from transfer switch board. Will transfer back once reconnected to terminal on board in transfer switch
  • getting 13.8v to grnd on 23 when measured at terminal output on board in transfer switch
Thinking maybe the board in the transfer switch?
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JayH

Rather than checking between N1 to ground and N2 to ground, check from N1 to N2 looking for 240 Volts.

Try this: Turn off the utility main circuit breaker. Put the generator in auto and let it transfer. Measure from N1 to N2. You should see zero volts. If you see voltage your N1 and N2 wires are connected to T1 and T2 or E1 and E2. Correct the wiring.

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Zomarconi
Thanks Jay, 

If that's the case, then the factory wiring is wrong. I traced N1 & N2 from there source at utility to the N1/N2 outputs at the transfer switch. 120 and 240 at these points. I ran a 6c/14 teck to the genset about 25ft. Checked N1/N2 at the terminations in the generator. 120/240 there as well. I even checked the connector pins for N1/N2 at the controller. Once again, 120 to ground and 240 across. So, at each connection point, N1/N2 are showing 120 to grnd and 240 across. The controller is clearly seeing utility power, but still starts on auto.
I did check the fuses, and N1/N2 connection points for voltage when utility power was off. Nothing, as expected. 

Utility power connections at top of switch have - 120/240

120/240 at output of transfer switch board at N1/N2

120/240 at terminal block in genset

120/240 at female connector that plugs directly into controller. 

Switch no longer cycles on auto, but will transfer if I drop line 23 or reconnect it. 

Basically, it's like it's running on manual all the time! 

Very puzzling! 

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78buckshot
If both the evolution control and the SACM board are not responding correctly I would guess that they were damaged from sending 120/240 VAC into the 12volt control terminals. 
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Zomarconi
Hmmm. 120 from N1 and N2 goes thru the mod connector into the SACM (240 measured across them) Outputs on their respective terminals on the SACM and goes, via the terminal block in genset, to controller.  A transformer missed somewhere? None of the factory install was touched. 
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78buckshot
If the N1 and/or N2 wire at the generator was accidently connected to 194/23 it would send 120/240 into the 12 volt control circuit and smoke the controller and SACM. I've seen it happen with subcontracted electricians not familiar with genset installs. I'm just suggesting this as a possible cause of failed components.
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Zomarconi
Ahhh. Made my heart skip a beat there for a sec! No, not a chance that happened. I'm leaning towards the SACM as being the problem, but not sure of its inner workings. So, I'm right to say that the 120v on N1 and N2 should be seen at the mod connector plugged into the evol controller?
Also, I should add that after changing the evol controller and doing a firmware upgrade, the transfer switch doesn't transfer under auto. The genset simply runs like it's on manual, no matter what I select, either man or auto. Transfer only occurs after dropping 23 from the SACM and/or reconnecting.
Wiring is solid end to end, all wires in the wiring harness have been metered out in the transfer switch. I was looking for a bad connector or something intermittent, but nothing I can see.

BTW. I'm one of those sub-contracted electricians 😄, but have completed over 20 installs of various sizes. Have run into  issues in the past, but have always found a solution either via this board or basic troubleshooting. This is a puzzler though! Thanks for your input! 
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78buckshot
That is odd, if you are reading 240 at the evo control then it should NOT start in the auto mode even if the SACM is trashed. Let me see if I understand the #23 wire, you say that the generator is running and you disconnect wire 23 and it transfers to emergency?, then you re-connect wire 23 and it transfers to utility? If that is what is happening it is acting in reverse of design.
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Zomarconi
I would have to revisit that sequence tomorrow, but I was saying the same thing to myself today. It seemed that it was doing reverse of what it should. One of the reasons I changed out the evol.

If I recall, by removing 23, the switch would change from utility to gen when running in auto. If it was already in Gen, then it would transfer to utility. Reconnect it, then it would transfer to former state. I'll definitely review that in the morning though. In other words, it doesn't seem that the transfer function is working at all as being instructed. I will look at the whole install with fresh eyes tomorrow and post my findings. This has to be something small but obvious. Thx
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78buckshot
The controller is programmed/designed to receive 240 VAC on N1/N2 and 120 VAC on T1. Wire/terminal 194 is an output from the control to the transfer switch, you should read battery voltage on 194 to ground. Wire/terminal 23 is a ground path from the control, when the control calls for a transfer to emergency (generator power) wire #23 sinks to ground within the controller and completes the circuit from 194 through the SACM and back to ground and causes the transfer relay to energize the emergency solenoid in the transfer switch. When #23 is lifted from ground the transfer relay will immediately energize the utility solenoid and shift back to utility power.
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78buckshot
I should be available on the forum tomorrow, are you able to get online while at the jobsite?
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Zomarconi
Very clear description. I'll look for this tomorrow. Definitely getting battery voltage on 194 and 120 on T1. I haven't followed the voltage on T1 end to end though. Not sure what I measured on 23 though. 
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Zomarconi
Yes, I can access the forum at job site. I'm on Galiano Island in British Columbia. Pacific time zone. It's 7pm my time. Where are you? 
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78buckshot
I'm in Michigan, it's 10:00 PM here, what time should I look for you on the forum?
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Zomarconi
1 p.m your time. That will give me time to go over everything again first.
Maybe and hopefully I'll find something I overlooked! Thanks for your help!
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78buckshot
All-righty then, we'll pick up tomorrow. Have a blessed evening.
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Zomarconi
Problem solved! I'll post findings tonight
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78buckshot
I just came inside the house, had a couple more inches of light snow so I wanted to clean up the driveway and let the sunshine do it's magic. We will all be waiting to see what you found, happy you got it running and appreciate the post.
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Zomarconi
O. K. Here is my embarrassing, but lesson well learned resolution.

240 V across N1/N2 and 120 on T1 exiting SACM to genset

120V to ground from N1 and N2 to ground at genset terminal block

0 potential between the two!

But definitely 240 between one of them and T1!

Using 6c/14 teck with the little white numbers on them. I guess I thought a 3 looked like a two at the genset side and had the three and two swapped at that end.

So, on N2, although I was getting 120 to grnd. It was actually the T1 from the SACM

Swapped these two, then I had my 240 all the way through. 

Now, I had disconnected the control cabling a couple of time previous to trace and test when using original controller and was sure that I was getting 240 at mod connector, hence changing out the controller. 

So, at this point, I'm still not confident that the original controller was bad or not and maybe my last attempt at cable checking involved my mistake described earlier. In any event, when I try to turn up the other generator with the board I figured was bad, I'll see if the same things happen. 

Thanks to this board for suggestions and thoughts to guide the process. Invaluable stuff! 
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78buckshot
Good description, N1 and T1 are the same leg or same phase, theoretically T1 is hot all the time to keep the battery charger energized. So what the generator saw as an outage was really not having 240 at the control due to landing N1 and T1 as sensing voltage, N2 would keep the battery alive as long as it was in utility mode. JayH and Cobranut were on the right track. Congratulations for staying with it and digging in to the end.
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Brian Baughman
This is the reason why Generac fought so hard to get the TC-ER-JP cables into the 2017 NEC.  Color coded control wiring!
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