JMD822 Show full post »
JMD822
Roger that. I tried jumping #56. Relay activated pinion solenoid and you can hear it engage. Did not crank though. Voltage on #56 wire was 12.3v with manual switch neutral/off, 13.4v with switch on before the start cycle. Wire 16 showed 0v with switch off. 7.3v as relay is trying to engage starter. Relay voltage where wire 16 was disconnected is a constant 12.3v. Wire #15 is 13.7v. I assume #15’s voltage comes out the charger? The relay voltage for the #15 spot is 12.3v
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78buckshot
Good info, if in fact the starter solenoid energized and pulled in causing the pinion to mesh with the ring gear but the starter did not spin- you have a bad solenoid or bad starter motor.
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JMD822
Hmmm. Even if the starter is jumpstarted with direct battery current. I can kick the pinion gear to pop forward by jumping the solenoid. I can get the the starter to spin independently without the pinion jumping the main starter terminal. Then jump both together cranking the engine. The tech I hired a few months ago said it was the starter, he replaced it and it did the same thing at the relay. He even tested it before it was installed. Something is not allowing the relay to kick the start circuit.
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78buckshot
Ok, after reading the post where you state wire #16 at the relay had 7.3 volts while attempting to crank, is that with a jumper from the battery post to #56 or with the controller making the call for crank? Wire 13 and wire 16 should read above 9.5vdc, normally I see 10.9-11.5 while it is cranking. Your dropping voltage somewhere between the battery and wire 16 out of the relay. Measure voltage at #13 going into the relay as your cranking and #16 coming out of the relay as your cranking, if 16 is lower than 13 the relay is bad, if #13 drops to 7.3 along with #16 then you have to trace 13 back to the point where it has full battery voltage as you are cranking.
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78buckshot
Also check the zero wire from the relay back to ground.
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JMD822
Yes. I disconnected wire 16 from the relay and tested voltage at the wire. First with the switch off......0v. Then with the manual switch to on....7.3v. The starter does not crank. The 7.3v is just coming off the #16 wire. The 0 wire, I believe had a full 13.7v.
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78buckshot
Go back to my post # 29, I know it can be a little difficult to read and then try to follow the wiring but we need to know why and where the voltage drop is occurring. What you just wrote is hard for me to follow, your reading 7.3vdc on a wire that is disconnected? Wire # 16 should go OUT of the relay and IN to the starter solenoid, it should read 10.5-11.5vdc if the engine is cranking or full battery voltage if #16 is disconnected at the starter solenoid. So with ALL wiring connected try to get voltage readings at the relay. The zero wire is ground and should have no voltage unless you had a probe on it and the other probe on battery positive from anywhere in the system.
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BrentB
bad battery cable.
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JMD822
Ok....I just had an AUTHORIZED Generac technician diagnose my generator. I am not any further ahead. First, without testing anything, turned the switch to manuel....click...click....click.....”you need a battery”. The “Special” battery would cost me $175.00. So, I went along with him and told him to fix it. Well the “Special” battery didn’t fix it. I then explained to him that the battery that he removed was brand new. He got out his book and did a few things. Said it was the starter relay. He had one on the truck and tried it. Strike two. I explained to him that that was replaced too. I now know, with little confidence that this guy knows what he was doing. Let’s replace parts until it works. He was here one hour and nothing. He told me that he has never run into this problem in the last ten years. Two “authorized technicians” at my house in the last four months and I still have a dead generator. HELP!! I know this thing is an older model, you open this thing up and it looks like brand new inside. No corrosion, electronic parts are bright and shiny. I hate to think about replacing it. There has to be something that we are missing.
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Peddler
What part of the world are you located?
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JMD822
Near Buffalo, NY
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JMD822
The company that was over yesterday called me back and said that they are sending their “expert” tech out next week.
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BrentB
If you jumped battery power directly to the starter and it cranked the unit, the only thing you bypassed at that point is the battery cable. Unless you have a loose ground somewhere, Read battery voltage on the starter stud. i have had to remove the nuts on the stud before and polish them as voltage on the battery cable did not drop, but voltage on the stud bottomed out! If it drops below 10.5 volts when you hit the start button, its a bad cable or connection! You can also use a jumper from the negative terminal on the battery to where all the zero wires are landed up top by the main PCB and see if this points to a ground issue there.
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JMD822
Brent...I removed the cluster of wires from the stud and polished everything with a red scotch pad. The all were tiight on terminals with no signs of corrosion. I removed the positive battery cable, fished it through the cabinet, inspected and gently recrimpted the ends. Everything was bright and shiney and the case was not dry rotted and looked perfect. Put everything together and the same click at the relay. I checked voltage and everywhere I hit for positive voltage read 12.68v. Battery cable voltage when disconnected read 13.37v. The zero wire at the relay 0v. Everywhere I could check ground either on the frame, cabinet, or components I was getting perfect tone on the probe. The only spot I could not get ground, were at the two screws holding the voltage regulator to the frame. I forgot to mention. I had the voltage regulator replaced last fall as a preventative maintenance measure recommended by a “authorized tech”. Does anyone know if the screws holding the voltage regulator to the cabinet insulated so ground cannot be detected? Could this be possibly a source of my issue? My problem started just after this was replaced.
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78buckshot
Voltage regulator is not causing the "no start" problem but it might be time to follow a wiring schematic to confirm ALL wires are in their correct position. Do you have a diagnostic manual for your unit?
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JMD822
I do not have one yet.
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BrentB
JMD822;n59622 wrote:
Brent...I removed the cluster of wires from the stud and polished everything with a red scotch pad. The all were tiight on terminals with no signs of corrosion. I removed the positive battery cable, fished it through the cabinet, inspected and gently recrimpted the ends. Everything was bright and shiney and the case was not dry rotted and looked perfect. Put everything together and the same click at the relay. I checked voltage and everywhere I hit for positive voltage read 12.68v. Battery cable voltage when disconnected read 13.37v. The zero wire at the relay 0v. Everywhere I could check ground either on the frame, cabinet, or components I was getting perfect tone on the probe. The only spot I could not get ground, were at the two screws holding the voltage regulator to the frame. I forgot to mention. I had the voltage regulator replaced last fall as a preventative maintenance measure recommended by a “authorized tech”. Does anyone know if the screws holding the voltage regulator to the cabinet insulated so ground cannot be detected? Could this be possibly a source of my issue? My problem started just after this was replaced.


Did battery voltage drop anywhere during the crank cycle? I did say to read battery voltage on the stud during crank cycle.
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