zen
Hi guys and thanks to let me join.I had to go check 2 ATS lately.One was a 200 amps and the other one was 100 amps.
Both new stuff installed last year.All generac including both 16kw gens.They had similar problems.
When power came back they both switch but gen didnt stop.One of the sensing fuse was burned.
Is it normal for them fuse to burn?Any idea about the cause?
Ty.
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Peddler
Something isn't right, if a fuse on N-1 or N-2 is burned or open then the switch should not transfer back even when AC is restored. Yes the generator would continue to run but it should not switch back to utility. You need to check your control wires and ohm out the controls and check voltage on various wires in the switch to figure out what is going on.
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zen
!. On the 100 amps ATS they had the gen stop when i get there.Power was switched to utility.I replaced the burned fuse and did a failure test and it worked fine.
Dont know what cause that fuse to burn.
2. On the 200 Amps the gen was still running when I get there.The client told me he was running off utility.I should have open the ATS before shutting it down
since it seems he was wrong.Both N fuses were burned at this place.When I started it the 1st time like 2 months before I did 2 power failure test to make sure everything works fine.
Then at a real power failure it started and supply the house but didnt stop.
Fuses on back order but im pretty sure it will work fine with new fuses.
Cant see what cause them fuses to burn either.
Any idea or is it common which i doubt?
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78buckshot
I agree with Peddler, you need to carefully check the wiring from end to end, pay attention to detail, loose strands, cut insulation etc. It is not normal for the fuses to blow if all is correct. If N1 or N2 or both are open then the machine will continue to run and should not transfer to utility.
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78buckshot
To add some info, got a call from a new customer, not our install. Generator started and transferred for no apparent reason - not a loss of utility. Owner turned generator off and called us. I found both N1and N2 fuses blown.  As I was preparing to disconnect the control wiring at the generator for testing I saw that the unit had a battery and oil heater which of course are connected to N1 and N2, battery warmer was shorted to ground. Removed battery warmer from the circuit and checked control wiring - no other problems found.
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Gray
78buckshot wrote:
\  As I was preparing to disconnect the control wiring at the generator for testing I saw that the unit had a battery and oil heater which of course are connected to N1 and N2, battery warmer was shorted to ground. Removed battery warmer from the circuit and checked control wiring - no other problems found.


Good detective work!
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Wireform
78buckshot wrote:
To add some info, got a call from a new customer, not our install. Generator started and transferred for no apparent reason - not a loss of utility. Owner turned generator off and called us. I found both N1and N2 fuses blown.  As I was preparing to disconnect the control wiring at the generator for testing I saw that the unit had a battery and oil heater which of course are connected to N1 and N2, battery warmer was shorted to ground. Removed battery warmer from the circuit and checked control wiring - no other problems found.

I did away with my battery warmer/blanket since in January 2017 when my generator failed to exercise or run in a power outage. Went to see why only to find the battery had exploded in pieces. luckily it was only a cleanup and not that it went all through the generator. Bought a top of the line battery that I was accustomed to and did away with the warmer even though it was powered with the thermo cube and only ran when the temps called for. I said to myself we'll see if i can get away without it .So far so good. Yesterday it exercised in 24 F without a problem so i think I'll be ok. Several weeks ago I did an oil change and topped off the battery as this vintage generator is known for it's charger issues where it boils out a little acid acid over time 
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78buckshot
We are in southeast Michigan, we can get some pretty cold nights but as a rule we have very little trouble with units cranking. Of the several hundred units we have installed and/or service I can count on one hand the units that have heaters, we don't push them.
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Wireform
I forgot to mention in earlier post, I do have a small engine block heater which is a 25W silicone stick on which works pretty well. Again not sure how it would be without it but at least it's not a death sentence to my generator. Tried using synthetic oil at some point but I found to be losing more oil on longer runs. 
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78buckshot
What oil are you using now?
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Cobranut
Wireform wrote:

I did away with my battery warmer/blanket since in January 2017 when my generator failed to exercise or run in a power outage. Went to see why only to find the battery had exploded in pieces. luckily it was only a cleanup and not that it went all through the generator. Bought a top of the line battery that I was accustomed to and did away with the warmer even though it was powered with the thermo cube and only ran when the temps called for. I said to myself we'll see if i can get away without it .So far so good. Yesterday it exercised in 24 F without a problem so i think I'll be ok. Several weeks ago I did an oil change and topped off the battery as this vintage generator is known for it's charger issues where it boils out a little acid acid over time 


Batteries explode when they get low on electrolyte and the starter tries to crank.  The battery heater may have contributed to the low electrolyte, especially if powered in warmer weather.
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Wireform
Cobranut wrote:


Batteries explode when they get low on electrolyte and the starter tries to crank.  The battery heater may have contributed to the low electrolyte, especially if powered in warmer weather.

Can't agree with you more accep for the fact I ran it with the thermo cube TC-2 which is on @20°and off @30°. I've checked it many times and never found it to be overly warm at those temps. In fact a car battery gets much warmer even winter time in the engine compartment. I agree it exploded do to the low electrolyte level when it cranked as the plates are exposed but this particular built in charger is known to cause this evaporation problem as I have proved it by not having the battery warmer and it still lost some. 
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Peddler
Any units purchased before 2011 should have the battery replaced every three years regardless of the battery type or brand.
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Wireform
Thanks peddler,
Is that because of the kind of charger it has. Would replacing it with the Deltran "Battery Tender Power Plus Charger 12V 3amp Maintainer unit change the facts.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
Wireform wrote:
Thanks peddler,
Is that because of the kind of charger it has. Would replacing it with the Deltran "Battery Tender Power Plus Charger 12V 3amp Maintainer unit change the facts?
In my opinion, the answer is a definite YES as long as the installation and operation is done totally to my design/PM spec or better.

1. Power the charger/maintainer from a dedicated GFCI branch circuit which is powered by utility power or the generator.
2. Check the electrolyte level fairly frequently (at least every month for a few months until you prove that the new charger does not boil off electrolyte and at least once every six months after that).
3. Load test the battery at least once a year and more often as the battery ages.  When you notice recovery time (after applying a 100A load for 10 seconds) lengthening significantly, replace the battery.
4. The key is to do non-destructive testing often enough to be able to recognize a failing battery before it would fail to properly run the generator.
Skip Douglas
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