redman
Hey, got into a shouting match with installing electrical co. today about a eaton / cutler hammer transfer switch, just want your opinions if i'm wrong or right, if i'm wrong, hey I will admit it.

situation 200 amp meter combo, feeding a 100 amp eaton transfer switch, feeding inside house panel. This is going to a 20 kw ch / generac generator
model: 0059240 / serial: 5898864 { been installed for 5 years, and battery keeps going dead}

n1-n2 hooked up in transfer switch feeding generator 240 v.
battery charger {t-1} is fed from meter combo {15 amp breaker } to generator, not from the transfer switch, on utility power battery charger works fine, on generator power with no utility present, battery charger drops from 13.3 to 12.5 - vdc and droping, I told the guy there, we needed to put an in-line fuse block in off the T-1 in transfer switch and feed the battery charger off that, not off 15 amp breaker from meter combo.

He said, the cutler hammer transfer switches can't be wired like that, this is the only way to do it, he went to "Eaton school" this is what they were told, and how to wire them. There are no drawings that he had to show this.
Also, argued that the alternator {stator / rotor} in the generator would charge the battery when running, just like a car....ok,

At this point, I walked away, gave homeowner my card, and told him when you want it fixed right, give me a call.{ I walked away for a reason ! }

Now, I hate / despise the eaton transfer switch, have had to work on several of them, ended up just replacing with Generac switch, because I could not get parts for them, and the cost of a board, it was cheaper to replace whole switch with Generac, than wait months for parts for them.

So is the other guy right or me?
Thanks, Mike
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Canada_Guy
redman;37765 wrote:

Also, argued that the alternator {stator / rotor} in the generator would charge the battery when running, just like a car....ok,


I'm sure one of the pro's will comment, but based on my knowledge, there is no charge winding on the generator. T1 must be powered continuously, even when the utility has failed and on generator power.
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GenMan
You need to take the wire from the top of the 15 amp breaker and put it in the 'Load side' of the switch, were there is always 120 vac whether utility is present, or the generator is running. The way the breaker is wired in the 200 amp switch only charges the battery when utility is present.

There is no charge winding in the generator, older style generators there was, but if there is a T1 connection in generator, that is a tell tale sign that the charge winding's in generator are not there

We just cut the wire as close as possible to were the factory wire connection is, and put a new spade terminal on and connect it to the Load side like I mentioned earlier.

You can put in a fuse block and run the charger off that like you mentioned, but its just a quick and easy to do it the way I mentioned.

Question though, why is there a 200 amp combo and then a 100 amp transfer? Why not one or the other? I don't understand why there is 2 switches?
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nrp3
I am set up as Eaton service as well, though I have only seen the Briggs stuff and one older liquid cooled unit that's Cat, Olympian, FG Wilson. While it seems like a decent unit, its hard to find parts for.
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MikeCB
To reinforce what GenMan is saying... In my experience, generators that for whatever reason (usually not hooked up properly) have lost their charging circuit will only last on average for about 48 hours of a power outage before the battery dies and the generator shuts down. You have to figure, without the charger power still present, the control board, stepper motor and fuel solenoid are all drawing off the battery while running.
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hoghead
You are correct redman.
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redman
Question though, why is there a 200 amp combo and then a 100 amp transfer? Why not one or the other? I don't understand why there is 2 switches?
GenMan, the meter combo was there from the beginning, meter - 200 amp main and 12 circuits below main. Then a transfer switch was mounted beside the meter combo and a 100 amp breaker installed for the main of the non service entrance rated transfer switch, the feed wires to the inside panel were moved into new transfer switch, on the T1 lug side of switch.


hoghead : I thought I was right, but sometimes at my age, just need a little back-up. It amazes me how some of these guys are educated far beyond their intelligence.

nrp3: I too am a Briggs dealer too, and have seen the transition from the Eaton transfer switch over the years. I might still be an Eaton dealer since they call me all the time to work on their generators.
It still amazes when I talk to Eaton people and they tell me how good the Generac is compared to competition, and I pull up the e-mails from 5-7 years ago, be before the "Briggs Divorce" when they talked so bad about the Generac one month and how great it was the next month...its funny
Did you ever get stuck with the old time liquid cooled models that were made in the "UK" yes I did, still have 4 of them left, and every homeowner knows when they break, they are done, no replacement parts for them.

MikeCB: how I solved his problem during our last ice storm, since his battery went dead after about a day of running, it shut down, he put in a new battery and had him hook up a small charger on the "neighbor outlet" while utility power was still out, till I could get there, worked fine the last 2 days he was out.

Homeowner called me over weekend and asked me to come fix it correctly like I told him last week, also picked up his future service work on generator, so all is good now.
Thanks, Mike
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ceb58
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Question though, why is there a 200 amp combo and then a 100 amp transfer? Why not one or the other? I don't understand why there is 2 switches?


There is not two switches. The meter combo is the perfect answer to installing a ATS. Especially if it is in place from the beginning. You can install ATS with out getting POCO involved and there is no need for a separate service disconnect so you can use a NON-SE rated ATS.
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