D. J. DAVIS
Installed Generac 5028 (20kw liquid cooled) with Asco 7000 ats . The ats was hooked up by an electrician, but it fails to transfer power.

When the main power fails, the generator starts. The transfer switch "Emergency Source Accepted" light is activated and the lcd message states, "Normal Failed Under Voltage", "Transfer To Emergency Inhibited".

The electircian told me that he didn't have alot of experience with the asco transfer switch and he didn't know what could be causing the problem. I noticed that he placed control wires n1 and n2 in the emergency load luggs. Is the correct place for them and could it be causing the problem?

Thanks in advance for the help.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
The N1/N2 wires take a 240VAC signal from the utility source to the generator's controller. If the N1/N2 wires have 240VAC across them, the generator is satisfied that it does not need to run. If the 240VAC (utility power) is lost, the generator controller decides to start the generator.

The generator has a 12VDC signal and a switched ground signal which activates a relay in Generac automatic transfer switches. This relay is part of the ATS switching mechanism.

What specific model of ATS do you have? If I could get a schematic diagram, I might be able to suggest what would work.
Skip Douglas
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D. J. DAVIS
Asco 7000 series ats / group 5 controller

Ser#298349-028RE

CAT# D07ATSA20200F5XC

BOM 751642

Wiring Diagram DWG: NO 718518-002

Operators Manuel: PN 381333-229

Group 5 control panel users guide: PN 381333-126
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Skip Douglas SkipD
Just out of curiosity, why was this transfer switch chosen over a Generac transfer switch? The Generac generator control system and this transfer switch do not seem to be at all compatible to me after a short run through the manual and drawings.

Anybody else have any ideas? Links: [URL="http://www.emerson.com/sites/network_power/en-US/Products/Product_Detail/Product1/Documents/ASCO%207000%20Series%20Power%20Transfer%20Switch/Asco%207000%20Series_Wiring%20Diagram-718518D.pdf?8109C=United%20States"][COLOR=blue][U]Wiring diagram set[/U][/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://www.emerson.com/sites/network_power/en-US/Products/Product_Detail/Product1/Documents/ASCO%207000%20Series%20Power%20Transfer%20Switch/11_04_09_381333_229E.pdf?8109C=United%20States"][COLOR=blue][U]Operator's manual[/U][/COLOR][/URL].
Skip Douglas
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bronco
n1 and n2 should be under the utility lugs with 5 amp fuses in between. once the asco switch sees gen power it should transfer. with the 7000 switch there could be some program setting that is not right.
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D. J. DAVIS
Bronco, are you talking about the normal utility power lugs? At this time n1 and n2 are conected to the power lugs from the generator. As far as the 5 amp fuse, the electrician gave me the fuses, but he didn't have the fuse holders. I will put them in myself.

I was told that the switch needs a 34B jumper Part#777715. Have you heard of such a thing?

The only reason I bought the asco switch is due to the low price.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
bronco;7000 wrote:
n1 and n2 should be under the utility lugs with 5 amp fuses in between. once the asco switch sees gen power it should transfer. with the 7000 switch there could be some program setting that is not right.
Would the Asco switch transfer to generator power during the generator's exercise cycles? That would not be a good thing if the generator has a "quiet mode" exercise cycle where it runs at 2/3 the RPM of a normal run.

D.J. - yes, the N1/N2 leads should be connected to the utility power terminals through 5-amp fast-blow fuses.
Skip Douglas
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D. J. DAVIS
The switch will allow it to exercise with or without a load. It can be progammed to exercise once a week, bi weekly or monthly.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
D. J. DAVIS;7003 wrote:
The switch will allow it to exercise with or without a load. It can be progammed to exercise once a week, bi weekly or monthly.
Do I presume that the exercise cycle that's built into the Generac's controller board is not used then?

I'm very curious as to how the switch tells the generator to run. That's normally done by the absense of the N1/N2 240VAC signal when the generator is used with Generac transfer switches.

I think the actual solution to your problem may include some re-wiring of the generator so that the transfer switch actually puts the generator into "manual" operation when it's supposed to run. This means that the auto/off/manual switch in the generator will require re-wiring and that switch will need to be left in the "off" position. This is not going to be a really simple marriage of generator and transfer switch.
Skip Douglas
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D. J. DAVIS
The transfer switch has taken over the generator's control board. The generator still monitors all it's safety sensers. There is a dip switch on the generator control board that lets you choose between an ATS or GTS transfer switch with two wire start.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
D. J. DAVIS;7005 wrote:
The transfer switch has taken over the generator's control board. The generator still monitors all it's safety sensers. There is a dip switch on the generator control board that lets you choose between an ATS or GTS transfer switch with two wire start.
I was unaware of the GTS mode and had been referring to typical Generac generator/ATS hookups. Ignore all of my comments above.

After reading page 12 of the owner's manual (part nr. 0F1007), I understand what needs to be done for interconnect wiring. Section 2.10 is pretty clear on how the interconnection should be done, though there is one possible area that can be confusing. The utility wiring goes to terminals shown as "N1/N2" on the drawing on page 12. The wiring between the ATS and generator also has a "N1/N2" pair. The possible confusion is that these two "N1/N2" pairs are the same. THEY ARE NOT.

In your setup, the "N1/N2" leads should, in fact, be wired from the 240VAC output terminals of the transfer switch contactor to the generator via 5-amp fast-blow fuses. The purpose for this 240VAC connection to the generator is now strictly for powering the battery charger, thus the 240VAC should be present on N1/N2 both when utility power and when generator power is feeding the house circuits.

If the generator is starting when commanded by the ATS, then the 178/183 contact wiring must be done correctly.

I tend to agree with bronco that you may need to do some additional configuration to the transfer switch controls to solve the switchover problem.
Skip Douglas
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D. J. DAVIS
SkipD, Just to clarify before I change the n1 & n2 control wires. When you say the wires need be wired from the 240vac output tirminals of the transfer switch, are you talking about L1 & L2 luggs which run to the 200amp panel?

Bronco advised that control wires n1 & n2 needed to be wired to the utility luggs. Are the 240vac output terminals of the transfer switch you mentoined the same as the utility luggs that Bronco mentioned?

As for the battery charger, wouldn't the battery charge with the control wires wired to the utility luggs and when the generator is running it would charge from the alternator?
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Skip Douglas SkipD
D. J. DAVIS;7129 wrote:
SkipD, Just to clarify before I change the n1 & n2 control wires. When you say the wires need be wired from the 240vac output tirminals of the transfer switch, are you talking about L1 & L2 luggs which run to the 200amp panel?
The N1/N2 fuses (5-amp fast blow) need to be connected to the "LL1" and "LL2" lugs (the [U]output[/U] side of the ATS contactor) in your ATS (refer to drawing 718518, sheet 6 of 6, left side). The N1/N2 wires going to the generator need to be connected to the other side of these fuses.


D. J. DAVIS;7129 wrote:
Bronco advised that control wires n1 & n2 needed to be wired to the utility luggs. Are the 240vac output terminals of the transfer switch you mentoined the same as the utility luggs that Bronco mentioned?
Bronco was stating what is normal when using Generac transfer switches as was I in my first post. However, since you are using the GTS mode with your generator's controller, you need to do things differently.


D. J. DAVIS;7129 wrote:
As for the battery charger, wouldn't the battery charge with the control wires wired to the utility luggs and when the generator is running it would charge from the alternator?
Refer to page 12 of your generator owner's manual (0F1007) which describes the connection to an "engineered transfer switch" with the generator set to GTS mode. On this page, it states (on the left side) that the generator will NOT be monitoring the utility power (which is the normal purpose of the N1/N2 wiring to the generator). It further states (on the right side) that the N1/N2 wiring is providing the power for the battery charger, even when the controller is in the GTS mode. Thus, the N1/N2 wires need to feed 240VAC to the generator all the time.

If you wired the N1/N2 fuses to the utility power lugs in your ATS, then the battery charger would not function if utility power is out and the generator is supplying power to your loads. By wiring the N1/N2 fuses to the output of the ATS's contactor, the battery charger will function while running on generator power as well as when running on utility power.
Skip Douglas
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D. J. DAVIS
Thanks for the quick reply.

I read page 12 of the manual and I'm understanding something different from what your instructing.

The owners manual states "In order for the generator battery charging function to work, it is neccessary to provide a 5 amp fused 240Vac utility source connection from the transfer switch main N1 and N2 terminals to the generator control panel N1 and N2 terminals (see Figure 2.4)".

The drawing on page 12. "Figure 2.4 - Connection Diagram (GTS Mode)"

The drawing shows the generator N1 N2 connecting to the ATS fused N1 N2. In the drawing it shows T1 T2 (LL1 LL2) going to the load distribution panel without the N1 N2 connected to it.

On page 11 (ATS Mode) of the owners manual it states the same type of connection for the N1 N2 control wires. The only difference in the drawing is the connection of the 194 and 23 control wires.

Im not sure if the online manual your looking at is the same one that came with the generator or if Generac has changed their instructions. I bought this generator used and I know it was made in 2005.

Not trying to be difficult, just want to do it right. I know the electrician hooked it up wrong. If possible could you check the above infomation and advise.

While being a member for a short time, I can see that you are very knowledgable on the subject and I will be connecting the generator as per your final instructions.

Thanks.
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Skip Douglas SkipD
D. J. DAVIS;7144 wrote:
The owners manual states "In order for the generator battery charging function to work, it is neccessary to provide a 5 amp fused 240Vac utility source connection from the transfer switch main N1 and N2 terminals to the generator control panel N1 and N2 terminals (see Figure 2.4)".
Unless there is a secondary way to power the battery charger when the generator is running, you need to connect it the way I suggested. If there is a secondary way to power the charger, then the N1/N2 can be connected to the utility feed in the transfer switch.

Here's how you can test for the best way to wire the N1/N2 in the transfer switch:

Wire the fuses to the UTILITY INPUT terminals. Then, turn off the utility power. The generator should start. The transfer switch should switch over to the generator power. Then, you can measure the voltage at the battery in the generator. If you see 13 volts or more on the battery, there is an auxiliary power source in the generator which powers the battery charger. If, however, the battery drops to 12.6 volts or less with the generator running and utility power NOT feeding the ATS, you'll need to wire the N1/N2 to the 240VAC output of the transfer switch. Anything more than 12.6 volts on the battery (after stabilization time) is provided by the charger.
Skip Douglas
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josephteel
sad but true

By not using a Generac transfer switch your warranty is null and void
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mastr
The 7000 is a lot more complicated to set up than the 300 is, agree you probably have more set up to do. Be sure Inhibit transfer to Emergency (feature 34b in the menu), is disabled.

I wouldn't be concerned about use of this switch voiding the warranty, unless Generac has started giving away switches. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)), makes it pretty difficult to play the "you have to use our product only" game.
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mastr
[url]http://ascouniversity.com/Products/ATS/series7000/7000faq_fq.html#fq03[/url]

I missed your earlier statement about the 34b jumper. That missing jumper and having feature 34B enabled will inhibit transfer to emergency as the switch is waiting for a closure across 34b to transfer.


Either place a jumper across the 34b terminals or disable the feature.
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