striker1211
Serial: 4049642


Hello. I am trying to troubleshoot this issue where my generator does not stay running in auto or manual, I have tried the "set to off for 10 seconds, go to manual" trick and it does it every time. I have a matching automatic transfer switch too. I called Ziller (I'm in Chelsea, MI) but their techs aren't in til tomorrow anyways so I thought I'd post....

1. I cannot find the service/diagnostic manual for this generator. I only need the product code and I could find it :)
2. I am relatively sure, from reading, it is either: Slip rings, voltage regulator, or 2A CB2 fuse? But I don't have the diagnostic manual so I cannot perform checks.
3. If a tech from Ziller is on here, how much is a R&R for these parts roughly?

I am currently debating trying to fix this 2005 model or just buying one from costco (if it would work with my transfer switch). Are these things like boat engines where a part is $5 and markup is $100? I am new to these but have worked on boat engines, mowers, and cars.

Thanks in advance for your help, and to Ziller for this awesome resource.

[SOLVED]: See my last post
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Peddler
The flashing overspeed fault is actually no AC output. This could be the unit not flashing the field or any number of things. In any case it is well worth persuing a fix as it may be very simple. If you are going to attempt it yourself then you should get a diagnostic repair manual and make sure you have a high quality multimeter. Parts are reasonable but sometimes labor is expensive. Awell trained Tech is worth the money but many are not so well trained. Ziller seems to operate a pretty good business so I would hope they could get it going for a reasonable amount. Good Luck, Peddler
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striker1211
Arg, one problem then another. Today I noticed that the flashing overspeed LED stopped blinking by itself. "Must be a fluke" I thought. I ran the generator with no load for 20 minutes. Then I went out and turnde off the generator, then I set it the On/Manual/Auto switch to Auto. Then I waited a few minutes to make sure the haunted thing wasn't going to start by itself and it did not, so I ran downstairs and flipped the 70 amp generator breaker to simulate a power failure. The generator started up and the transfer switch kicked power over to the generator and it supplied power at 121-122 volts @ 61.2-62.1 Hz.

However, after 5 minutes the generator turned itself off. I saw the "system set" LED was flashing green three times long one time short. I had no power on transfer switch powered circuits. I waited 3 minutes, no sound to the transfer switch. I decided to try switching the generator to off before calling someone (my sumps are on it and it just rained). When I ran back out a solid green "system set" LED was on, I flipped the on/manual/auto switch from Auto to Off. By the time I got back inside the microwave light was on (powered by transfer switch).

So, noob question:

My manual says the generator waits a little bit to warm up before transferring load to it, but how long until the transfer switch is switched back to utility when power is restored (and if the generator dies, for example). I am worried now that setting it to auto could be worse than setting it to off on a long vacation haha. Thanks.
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Peddler
When the unit was turned to off and there was utility power available it would immediately transfer back to utility. If it shut down with the utility still off then you have some type problem with the main control board. Peddler
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Geoff Z
From what I learned, a flashing over speed light = bad PCB.

0D86150SRV $197.30 delivered via FedEx. 24 of these boards in stock.

If you maintain the engine in that generator, it will last a long time. PCB's rarely fail in those units, however voltage regulators and starters are the normal things that stop working. Both fairly inexpensive fixes. While I would feel very comfortable saying a new PCB should correct your issue, it always could be something else. I am making this assumption from the prior units we have had with flashing over speed errors.
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striker1211
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but,

I called the local dealer in June and they were pushing a PM contract and couldn't give me an estimate on the repair time for my issue. I kind of knew this as diagnostics never go as expected on-site.... anyway, this whole concern fell by the wayside because the generator worked fine for months as I heard it exercise, and it ran for 10 hours perfectly and automatically during a power outage in September.

However, I have been gone on exercise day and just noticed a flashing over speed once again. Now that this problem has occurred again I want to see if I can solve it. I really would like to not throw parts at it and want to pay someone a few hours of diagnostic time. My local generac dealer is Stein Electric out of Manchester, MI. I have no experience with them personally other than the phone call and was wondering if anyone here (since Ziller is Michigan-based) has heard any stories positive or negative about them? Thanks.
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Peddler
The most likely cause of this is dirty slip rings which can be cleaned. Weather plays a roll too, if it has been cold and then warms quickly and is damp the generator will sweat. This causes the generator to not catch the field flash and then fault on the flashing over speed. If you clean the brushes and it continues to have this fault I would then install a continuous field flash kit which will keep flash voltage on longer to help insure it catches the flash. Good Luck, Peddler
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striker1211
Sorry to necro-post but the unit finally stopped running at all this past month so I had to tackle it. I called a local electrical place and got quoted for a slip ring cleaning and made the appointment. While I was gone they worked on it and they replaced the voltage regulator without doing the rings... initially I was annoyed because they did not clean the rings but they then told me the regulator was outputting over 300 volts and that they actually did do a diagnostic first.... and I'll be darned if the thing hasn't been exercising perfectly for the past month. We even had a 4 hour outage two days (i kid you not) after they fixed it and it ran like a champ. I hope this post helps anyone who has the same generator and same issues. The bill came to $211 all said and done. Well worth it.
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Ziller Tech
striker1211;40910 wrote:
Sorry to necro-post but the unit finally stopped running at all this past month so I had to tackle it. I called a local electrical place and got quoted for a slip ring cleaning and made the appointment. While I was gone they worked on it and they replaced the voltage regulator without doing the rings... initially I was annoyed because they did not clean the rings but they then told me the regulator was outputting over 300 volts and that they actually did do a diagnostic first.... and I'll be darned if the thing hasn't been exercising perfectly for the past month. We even had a 4 hour outage two days (i kid you not) after they fixed it and it ran like a champ. I hope this post helps anyone who has the same generator and same issues. The bill came to $211 all said and done. Well worth it.


Basically what was happening was the AVR was drawing more amperage through the DPE breaker than it was supposed to (because of the high voltage output) and opening the breaker and shutting down. Glad someone found it before it transferred to the house!
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cowger
Digging this thread up from long ago but since it was my source of information recently, I wanted to add my experience: My 04390 (15kW air cooled, ~2005 model) started flashing the Overspeed light. Per this thread, I started by replacing the brushes (cheap and fairly easy) but that made no difference, and I found that the old brushes were barely worn at all.

Bottom line: I should have started by measuring the voltage on the 70A breaker on the generator -- mine was outputting ~350VAC and crazy frequencies. Replaced the voltage regulator with part # 0F97190SRV (ordered from Amazon) and that fixed the problem.

Hope this might help someone in the future.
Bryan
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Skip Douglas SkipD
cowger;n59587 wrote:
Bottom line: I should have started by measuring the voltage on the 70A breaker on the generator -- mine was outputting ~350VAC [COLOR=#FF0000]and crazy frequencies[/COLOR]. Replaced the voltage regulator with part # 0F97190SRV (ordered from Amazon) and that fixed the problem.
Bryan, the "crazy frequencies" thing could have been due to using an inadequate meter to read the frequencies. Because most generators sold for home use (standby and portable types) have voltage regulators that put "noise" on the electric output (something that requires an oscilloscope to see), many multimeters have trouble reading the voltage and, especially, frequency. The solution is to obtain a high quality meter (such as most of the Fluke line of multimeters) that uses "True RMS" techniques to read AC values.

Skip Douglas
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cowger
SkipD;n59589 wrote:
Bryan, the "crazy frequencies" thing could have been due to using an inadequate meter to read the frequencies. Because most generators sold for home use (standby and portable types) have voltage regulators that put "noise" on the electric output (something that requires an oscilloscope to see), many multimeters have trouble reading the voltage and, especially, frequency. The solution is to obtain a high quality meter (such as most of the Fluke line of multimeters) that uses "True RMS" techniques to read AC values.



Thanks, and I'm sure there are a lot of flakey multimeters out there, but mine reads 62 Hz (no load) perfectly with the new regulator. FWIW.

Bryan

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cowger
At the risk of hijacking this thread, I'd like to post an update and a request for more help, please.

After replacing the voltage regulator last month (3 posts back), I thought I had this problem solved, but the generator continued to show this "flashing overspeed" error every couple weeks. In other words, I'm continuing to have some type of error that comes and goes. It will run just fine for 1 or 2 weekly tests, but then sometimes it fails.

I had previously replaced the brushes, as I mentioned, but was concerned by the fact that I was measuring 23 ohms for the rotor resistance, versus the 19.8 ohms specified in the manual. Yesterday I disassembled everything again and polished the brush rings with some 400 grit sandpaper -- before and after pictures below.

After putting everything back together, the generator now runs fine without the error indication, but the rotor resistance hasn't changed -- still 23 ohms. Since the manual doesn't list a range of values for this (just 19.8 ohms), does this suggest a problem?

Obviously I will be monitoring it closely to see if the error returns, but at this point I have very little confidence that my generator can be relied upon.

Thanks,
Bryan
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Peddler
Are you measuring that right at the slip rings? If so then you may have a problem if your meter is accurate. If you are measuring through the brushes then the reading is perfectly normal.
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cowger
Peddler;n60017 wrote:
Are you measuring that right at the slip rings? If so then you may have a problem if your meter is accurate. If you are measuring through the brushes then the reading is perfectly normal.


I'm measuring it per the diagnostic manual instructions. Connector C2, I believe, pins 9 and 10. It's off ~15%, which I understand may not be that big of a deal.

I'm not overly worried about this measurement. I am worried that my generator keeps throwing this error code. Looking for suggestions of other things to try or check, too.

Thanks,
Bryan
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78buckshot
cowger, you reported reading 62hz. after you replaced the AVR, was that with the generator loaded, covers and lid all on and closed? Slip ring and brushes will have no effect on 'overspeed' faults. Most overspeed issues with your model are due to the ignition magnetos, the control gets it's speed signal from the mags and also due to the age of your unit the mags tend to break down and cause starting problems. With that said, I replaced the mags in one that was repeatedly giving the overspeed fault, a few weeks later it again faulted on overspeed, replaced the controller and it's been good.
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Peddler
The specs on Rotor ohms are to be measured on the slip rings themselves, so you are good if you are measuring them through the brushes.
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cowger
78buckshot;n60020 wrote:
cowger, you reported reading 62hz. after you replaced the AVR, was that with the generator loaded, covers and lid all on and closed? Slip ring and brushes will have no effect on 'overspeed' faults. Most overspeed issues with your model are due to the ignition magnetos, the control gets it's speed signal from the mags and also due to the age of your unit the mags tend to break down and cause starting problems. With that said, I replaced the mags in one that was repeatedly giving the overspeed fault, a few weeks later it again faulted on overspeed, replaced the controller and it's been good.


Thanks, buckshot. That 62 Hz was no load, most likely with the circuit board cover off and the lid open. Does the lid open/closed make a difference?

Good to know that I can forget about the brushes / slip rings and work on other possible causes. I'm willing to try replacing the magnetos -- just to be sure, you're talking about the item labeled "ASSEMBLY, IGNITION COIL" in the manual, correct?

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cowger
My manual lists the part number for the magnetos as 0C3052. I can't seem to find that available anywhere, including here at Ziller. Does anyone happen to know if there's a replacement part number?

Thanks...
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george6488
Buying from Amazon may save a couple of dollars but who do you call with a warranty problem. My opinion..........Ziller posts this forum and I will buy from them. IMHO
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78buckshot
Covers off/open will let the unit run a little faster due to less resistance for the fans, sounds like your good on RPM. Yes, ignition coil assembly, you want the updated kit that includes both coils "A" and "B" plus the harness that connects them, can't remember the P/N but Ziller will know what you need.
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78buckshot
Ignition coil kit/magnetos P/N 0K63030SRV
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cowger
george6488;n60029 wrote:
Buying from Amazon may save a couple of dollars but who do you call with a warranty problem. My opinion..........Ziller posts this forum and I will buy from them. IMHO


You're absolutely right - I should not have mentioned Amazon in this forum. Sorry 'bout that...
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cowger
78buckshot;n60033 wrote:
Ignition coil kit/magnetos P/N 0K63030SRV


Thank you!!! I'll replace these and see how things go. I have noticed some trouble starting, so this may well be the issue.

Bryan
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cowger
Update: I replaced the magnetos last weekend and that all went well -- really wasn't that bad of a job.

At 10:50 this morning we lost power and the generator is running like a champ. Power is expected to be restored sometime tonight.

I'll post again if I get another flashing overspeed error, but so far, so good. Thank you to everyone who helped on this.

Cheers,
Bryan
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