peteandsun Show full post »
sgtmaj27

peteandsun wrote:
I'm attaching the warranty to show that the language you are telling me about is not there.

The industry definition of “Prime Power” generators are units used where utility power is not available.  Thus, Generac is quite specific in the Warranty for the 7029.  Geoff Z got it right.

Copied from the attached warranty above:

The following will NOT be covered by this warranty:
11. Units sold, rated or used for "Prime Power", "Trailer Mounted" or
"Rental Unit" applications as defined by Generac. Contact an Authorized Generac Service Dealer for definitions.

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peteandsun
Well, I am truly grateful to the people on this site that were helpful to me in figuring out the 2-wire start situation.  Now it feels like some kind of "gotcha".  Dude, I googled "prime power generator" and the explanations I saw did not indicate an industry wide common definition of the term.  The "as defined by Generac"  and listed #11 (on a 15 item list) on the list of "not covered" seem to me to not be as up front as Generac could be.   So, sure Geoff Z and you have it right, but I'm sure there will be plenty more people buying generators online that will get it wrong like my clients did.  I would like to see Generac and/or their dealers be a little more open about the restricted use of this generator.  The Eco-gen model is way oversized for just about any off-grid system, and, as such will waste fuel as a "prime power" generator besides the high initial cost. 
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Geoff Z
The not covered section item #11. We do everything we can to inform every customer. However people many times just hear what they want to hear. We also aren’t afforded the opportunity to speak with every customer. They simply know what they want and order it. Only to find out later they have made a mistake. We would never sell a unit intended for a Prime Power application without making it absolutely clear there would be no warranty. We still have customers buy them intentionally knowing they will have no warranty. Nor would we ever try to turn an illegitimate claim to Generac. Our continued relationship with Generac is way more important than one claim. We feel awful for people when that happens to them. However it has never happened even one time due to our neglect or lack of information provided to customers. 
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peteandsun
Geoff Z, when I mentioned online sales, I wasn't even thinking about Ziller.  The fact that you have this forum is proof that you guys go above and beyond.  Again, I really appreciate the opportunity to become more informed about generators and Generac generators in particular.  Lord knows I have plenty of experience with people wanting what they want for a solar system and making the purchase without consulting with me or anyone else, and then I'm supposed to put it all together for them.
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Geoff Z
No worries. I totally understand. We installed for Big Box for several years. Where floor staff would say anything they must to make a sale. Then we are left to tell the customer the promise from the store cannot happen. The store simply does not care as their only goal was to sell the generator. We were left facing the customer and taking the beat down. Or the other scenario is "I bought this package from big box and I have the wrong transfer switch. Will you work a trade with me?" We got really tired of that and got out.

Yes this forum is one of the best things we have ever done. I simply stay out of the way and learn from this great group! 
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fgamache
Cobranut wrote:


The best way around that problem is to install a magnetic contactor, rated for  the gen max output, between the genset and the inverter.
Trigger the contactor with whatever voltage relay it takes to match the 2-wire start signal. 
This will remove power from the inverter as soon as the genset is commanded to shut down. 

I used a similar contactor for my remote controlled standby unit.


Hi Cobra (or others) -- could you elaborate on what type of contactor (with an actual example maybe?) would be appropriate and how that all works? I suffer from the same "2-wire cooldown but then starts to draw load before shutdown" issue with my 11Kw Guardian controlled by a Magnum auto gen start. I've looked at a bunch of contactors that are rated in horsepower and frankly cannot really figure this out....

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Brian Baughman
The two wire start function is available to allow the generator to be connected to a two wire ATS.  Using the two wire start function to connect the generator to a generator auto start controller that is part of an off-grid system will void the generator warranty, unless the generator is an EcoGen generator.  The EcoGen generator is the only Generac generator that is approved by Generac for off-grid use. 
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Cobranut

fgamache wrote:


Hi Cobra (or others) -- could you elaborate on what type of contactor (with an actual example maybe?) would be appropriate and how that all works? I suffer from the same "2-wire cooldown but then starts to draw load before shutdown" issue with my 11Kw Guardian controlled by a Magnum auto gen start. I've looked at a bunch of contactors that are rated in horsepower and frankly cannot really figure this out....



Here is the 150a one I used for my 30kW unit.
Just make sure you get one that is at least as high capacity as the main breaker on your genset.

I used a smaller relay with a 12v coil to activate the 120v coil on the contactor.

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Geoff Z
I’d like to learn more about how it works also. Does it need to be a latching type relay? Or have a continuous duty coil?
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Cobranut
Cobranut wrote:


Here is the 150a one I used for my 30kW unit.
Just make sure you get one that is at least as high capacity as the main breaker on your genset.

I used a smaller relay with a 12v coil to activate the 120v coil on the contactor.

 



Shoot, I forgot the link. 
I'll try to post it tomorrow, as I'm on my phone now. 

Anywho, it's not a latching contactor, but it must be continuous duty. 

In my application I use the output that would normally cause the ATS to transfer, but for the situation here, you'll probably want to use the 2-wire start signal to trigger it. 
That may require a 12v or a 5v coil on the small pilot relay.  I like the 120v coil on the contactor,  as it needs less current and should run cooler.
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Cobranut
Here's the link to the contactor.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/product/~product_id=LC1D150G7
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fgamache
Thanks, I really appreciate the follow-up!
fg
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