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17.5kW 4583 - High voltage

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  • 17.5kW 4583 - High voltage

    Generac Ultra Source 17,500 Model: 004583-0 , SN 4820634
    During a power outage and using it I noticed the lights very bright.
    With a meter, I checked Voltage and Hertz.
    Voltage: @120 Plug= 148 , @220 = 280
    Hertz: @120 outlets, I would see 59.9, and then it would jump to 120+. back and forth? @220 outlet It would never stabilize.

    Any suggestions on what to check and would replacing the Voltage Regulator take care of this? From Parts list i see part # 0F9719.

    Any suggestion on anything else that I should check or look at would be appreciated.

  • #2
    For the frequency to jump from 59.9 to 120+ the engine would have to double its speed. At double speed the engine would destroy itself. You have a meter that is not capable of reliably reading the corrupted waveform from a generator. That makes me wonder if it can reliably read the voltage. I'm not saying that your voltage wasn't high, just that I don't trust your meter to give an accurate reading.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is a Southwire unit I got a Lowes, so I won't say it is up to par with a nice Fluke.
      But for most of what I do it has worked.
      I have ordered a Regulator, and I was in a hurry one evening after work. So I will do another check to verify my findings. I think it was operator error. I did do a quick reference to a wall socket, and it was steady. so I will see with my next check this weekend. Living in Houston, the possibility of bad weather and no power is continuous this time of the year. Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        But back to my issue, and I hope you or someone can help.
        If my Frequency is good (59.9), and stable, but My voltage is up to 148.
        Would that mean that the Regulator is bad?
        I have not tried to adjust it, and I have had this generator for 10yrs maybe with no issues.
        How could it change with no adjustments made?

        Comment


        • #5
          Some of the voltage regulators were built with a plastic pot for adjusting voltage. Those have proven to be unreliable. Basically a pot is a strip of resistance material with a copper wiper that is moved over the resistance material. In your case it has been pressing on the same spot for 10 years. Vibration from the engine causes microscopic movement which will eventually "saw" through the material and ruin the pot. If that is what happened a new regulator is required. You could try adjusting it but if the resistance material has been severed you will get wild voltage changes as the pot is adjusted. It's also possible for "gunk" (anything that shouldn't be there) to get between the wiper and the resistance material breaking the wiper connection to the resistance material.

          Comment


          • #6
            Sometimes sub standard meters will give a better reading with a small load applied to the circuit. As the VR ages it is not unusual for the voltage to drift. I would adjust the voltage to 120 L-N or 240 L-L with your existing VR and stop there unless it won't hold the adjustment for some reason.

            Comment


            • #7
              I picked up a new Meter, nice Fluke 87V.
              Remeasured Voltage and Hz.
              Both legs should be at 120 L-N, measured 299 to 301VAC
              Both legs Hz were at 59 to 60 the whole time.
              I am measuring the voltage right at the 60amp breaker, and I pickup the Neutral at the 60amp plug.
              The only thing I don't have is it tied to earth, as I am working on it in the middle of my shop. Would that affect anything?
              I also seam to have lost the electric Fuel shutoff. I replaced it and it worked for a while then it stopped working.
              I take the needle out and just turn the fuel off and let it run . Would this lead to a 12 volt system issue?
              At the battery, I measured 14VDC dc, but at the 12vdc plug, I had 0 volts. not sure why.
              What should I check next.
              Last edited by BrianB; June 23rd, 2018, 05:01 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BrianB View Post
                I picked up a new Meter, nice Fluke 87V.
                Remeasured Voltage and Hz.
                Both legs should be at 120 L-N, measured 299 to 301VAC
                Both legs Hz were at 59 to 60 the whole time.
                I am measuring the voltage right at the 60amp breaker, and I pickup the Neutral at the 60amp plug.
                The only thing I don't have is it tied to earth, as I am working on it in the middle of my shop. Would that affect anything?
                I also seam to have lost the electric Fuel shutoff. I replaced it and it worked for a while then it stopped working.
                I take the needle out and just turn the fuel off and let it run . Would this lead to a 12 volt system issue?
                At the battery, I measured 14VDC dc, but at the 12vdc plug, I had 0 volts. not sure why.
                What should I check next.
                If the voltage was even close to 300 volts with a load applied, the lights would not have been just bright, they would have burned out instantly. Have you tried measuring the voltage with the new Fluke while some possibly sacrificial load is applied?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Come on guys, it is a common problem for this unit.

                  Verify that the voltage regulator is seeing full voltage (2 terminals marked SEN)

                  If it is and it still insists on putting out 300 volts, replace it and be happy.

                  Not that complicated.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you have run it with the voltage output that high for any length of time the battery charge circuit which is a separate winding in the stator is probably producing 20-30 VDC and that is what is killing your fuel solenoid and anything else that is 12VDC. I would get a new VR on this thing before you do any more damage. It is pretty rare to loose sensing but as was mentioned earlier that could cause the problem as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Peddler,
                      I found the Diagnostic Repair Manual for this model online.
                      I was going to start going through it, but maybe you could list out what I need to test and values I should see on each test. I am an Engineer, but not a EE, so I understand Schematics, just not the technician to troubleshoot this efficiently.
                      Just a list of what and where would be very helpful, I will post the readings, and from that maybe you can give me a direction. Your help is very much appreciated.
                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The #11S and #22s are the top two wires on the VR and they provide feedback to the VR of the output voltage. If you are getting the same voltage to these two wires as you do the #11 wire at the breaker to neutral then you have a voltage regulator problem. If you are not getting the voltage to these then you have to track down why as they are connected in the stator to the output leads. I am almost certain your trouble is the VR, common failure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Peddler,
                          I'm looking at the wire diagram and #11s is 3rd and I don't see #22s. Could you be thinking of #44s, as it comes off the other side of the winding. I am referencing the "Run Circuit from Diagnostic Repair Manual diagram on pages 24 & 25. I tried to post a PDF of it, but don't know how.

                          OK, I was looking at other things in the book and came across Wiring Diagram 0G0731, and I see where #22s parallels #22 off the center of the winding.
                          The according to 0G0731, the VR is wired as: 11s, 22s, 4, 0, 6, 162.
                          "Run Circuit" Diagram on pages 24 & 25 has the VR wired: C/Ground, 162, 11s, 4, 44s, 6.1,

                          From My SN, how should I wire the VR 0F9719?
                          Last edited by BrianB; June 27th, 2018, 02:16 PM. Reason: Found more info needed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The 11s & 22s wires on the Voltage Regulator are what you need to confirm are sending voltage feedback to the VR. If they are working as they should then you would have the same voltage on 11 & 22 on the breaker and neutral. From the top depending on the orientation of the VR the wires are 11 & 22 (sensing), 4 & 0 (field), 6 & 162 (DPE) in that order.
                            Last edited by Peddler; June 27th, 2018, 01:38 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK, I was looking at other things in the book and came across Wiring Diagram 0G0731, and I see where #22s parallels #22 off the center of the winding.
                              The according to 0G0731, the VR is wired as: 11s, 22s, 4, 0, 6, 162.
                              "Run Circuit" Diagram on pages 24 & 25 has the VR wired: C/Ground, 162, 11s, 4, 44s, 6.1,

                              From My SN, how should I wire the VR 0F9719?

                              Comment

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