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  • Surging generators

    Hey, ever since the "surging generators" came about a year or so ago, I have been trying to find a solution to this problem. I can't say that this will fix all generators surging, but it has fixed 25 out of 25 generators in the last year since I started looking for a solution. Air cooled and Liquid cooled generators.

    I found with the Maxitrol regulators {if used} that the spring coming in the 325- line on 2lb. pressure didn't always stay stable under no load or load conditions, and would cause the generator engines to surge. Even if you had 5-7 inches water column, the gauge was bouncing around and not stable.

    If you started turning the in-coming shut off valve, slightly off, and slowing the flow and volume of gas to the generator, the gauge would stop bouncing as bad and the engine would clear up and run without surging, on no load condition, but when load was applied, then the generator was starving for gas and the shut off valve needed to be open to adjust the gas properly to run correctly, but then the surging would come back and the bouncing on the gauge and it was a cycle that you couldn't fix.

    {Most of this you know this, but trying to give detail to those that don't}

    After many conversations with our local NG supplier, they had no answer, and frankly didn't care, they supplied the gas, the generator is not their problem.
    I went to my local gas supply house, and they recommended to change the spring out to different color {s} to get the regulators to operate correctly and stop the engine surging, and it did.

    I found on the air cooled generator line the "Violet Spring" {color} worked the best on them. Since the regulator comes set 7-11 inches water column, and the newer air cooled generators require 3.5-7" inches water column, you were able to set and adjust them closer to the proper settings.
    The "violet color spring" is a 4-12" inches water column, it's heaver and stronger to hold the pressure more stable. I saw the gauge didn't bounce anymore, and the surging stopped as soon as the motor started.

    The Liquid cooled generators were different, typically they have a larger regulator than the air cooled generators, which required a different spring all together to stabilize the gas.

    If "no regulator" was installed after the meter to the generator, I never could fix that problem, without adding an external regulator 6-10 feet away from the generator, and then changing the spring if it was surging, and if it wasn't surging, left it like it was, if working properly.

    I tried different air filter, sometimes it worked, most times it didn't, I never got one of the air boxes with holes, and haven't seen one of those yet.
    I am no gas expert, and don't claim to be, just my observations over the last year trying to fix a problem that the factory only used band aids on.
    Hope this information helps someone else that is having same problem.
    Thanks, Mike

  • #2
    Not trying to knock this fix, since obviously it does work, but I think that the bouncing spring and regulator are an effect, not a cause to this problem.

    When a unit surges it will cause the regulators to bounce as well since there is a severe pressure fluctuation on the line.

    I've found that in most cases the new style fuel pin for the 22kW and the air box cover with the holes has fixed the problem, if not just an air filter swap. If I had to guess, I'd say those units with the tougher spring are still running with a goofy fuel mix, just that it doesn't tend to surge because of the tougher spring.

    The only reason I mentioning this is because around here getting the gas company to come out and swap a spring is not going to happen
    Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
    Zillerelectric.com
    888-2-ZILLER

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    • #3
      These "airboxes with holes", is this a Generac part, Or are you just drilling holes? I have about half a dozen of these generators, but my customers are not too thrilled about me wanted to drill holes in their otherwise new generators. It'd be easier to swallow if it was an official part.

      Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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      • #4
        The only ones I have had surge have been 20 and 22kw. I tried replacing the air filter with a Generac filter (0J8478S) several times and they continue to surge. As soon as I replaced the filter with a Wix 49225, the surging stopped. I put a load box on a couple of these to see what would happen and with the Generac filter it surges and with the Wix , it does not. I am not a filter guru but it has worked every time. I told tech service about it and they said if it works that's good. Maybe I've just been lucky 'cuase that's the only change I've made.

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        • #5
          I just had this issue on a 22KW where I replaced the filter to stop the surging, worked like a charm. This was a less than two year old installation so I filed a claim. It was denied and said I needed a control number for this problem. I called tech support and they told me that the units that did not have the hat with the holes in it probably needed a fuel pin replacement, not a different intake hat. They very nicely gave me a control number for the air filter replacement but said if it happened again to call support and they would give me a control number for a new fuel pin. They said that no one should be drilling holes in the hat to solve the surging problem. They also said that units before a certain SN were having the fuel pins replaced to solve this problem so I think they have a fix other than a new ventilated hat.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MikeCB View Post
            These "airboxes with holes", is this a Generac part, Or are you just drilling holes? I have about half a dozen of these generators, but my customers are not too thrilled about me wanted to drill holes in their otherwise new generators. It'd be easier to swallow if it was an official part.

            Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
            It is a Generac part number. They come standard on all 999cc 7000 series units. Generac does not advise changing them just to change and they are not meant to be an 'upgrade'. I would ALWAYS advise calling tech support before doing anything with these units.
            Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
            Zillerelectric.com
            888-2-ZILLER

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris Flagg View Post
              It is a Generac part number. They come standard on all 999cc 7000 series units. Generac does not advise changing them just to change and they are not meant to be an 'upgrade'. I would ALWAYS advise calling tech support before doing anything with these units.
              I did, they blamed it on bad air filters. Lol.

              Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                Lol
                Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
                Zillerelectric.com
                888-2-ZILLER

                Comment


                • #9
                  Chris: The only reason I mentioning this is because around here getting the gas company to come out and swap a spring is not going to happen

                  I'm confused, why would you call the gas company to change a simple spring in the external fuel regulator, its customer owned?

                  Don't you adjust the external regulator if the gas pressure / water column is too high or low for generator?

                  I can understand the gas meter, they won't come back to me to fix anything there, unless I'm going to pay a service call fee.
                  Mike

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by redman View Post
                    Chris: The only reason I mentioning this is because around here getting the gas company to come out and swap a spring is not going to happen

                    I'm confused, why would you call the gas company to change a simple spring in the external fuel regulator, its customer owned?

                    Don't you adjust the external regulator if the gas pressure / water column is too high or low for generator?

                    I can understand the gas meter, they won't come back to me to fix anything there, unless I'm going to pay a service call fee.
                    Mike

                    Things must be different there unless you are talking about LP? Here, the regulator is on the high pressure (utility side) of the meter. They own that equipment and if you touch their locked fuel regulator it's bad news...
                    Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
                    Zillerelectric.com
                    888-2-ZILLER

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                    • #11
                      Here in a lot of cases with rented LP tanks, the propane guys own the regulator too. I haven't seen any of the new ones surge. Is this a natural gas, propane, or doesn't matter issue? I carry a couple of the old covers because people seem to break the tabs off trying to change the air filters.
                      Last edited by nrp3; August 10th, 2017, 04:02 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Hey Chris, I am referring to a regulator off the meter / high pressure regulator, not the meter regulator, yes that belongs to the utility company.
                        I know there has been a lot of discussion about this added regulator between the meter and Generator, if it's needed or required, Generac tells me, it is needed to regulate the gas coming to Generator. I have seen a lot of generators without this regulator that worked fine, and others without it would not run correctly.
                        I install them to help to maintain a constant NG fuel to generator.
                        Mike

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                        • #13
                          Chris,
                          You mentioned in another post on hunting/surging 22kw generators a special fuel pin where the dealer has to request and get a control number for it. I mentioned this to my dealer and they said they checked with Generac and they didn't know anything about it. Do you have a contact name at Generac that I can give them. I have been fighting this issue for over a year. Thanks.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by redman View Post
                            Hey Chris, I am referring to a regulator off the meter / high pressure regulator, not the meter regulator, yes that belongs to the utility company.
                            I know there has been a lot of discussion about this added regulator between the meter and Generator, if it's needed or required, Generac tells me, it is needed to regulate the gas coming to Generator. I have seen a lot of generators without this regulator that worked fine, and others without it would not run correctly.
                            I install them to help to maintain a constant NG fuel to generator.
                            Mike
                            I think I'm confused.

                            We literally do not have a single one here on a generator unless the pressure is over the 7" mark. If you're adding those to installations then you could be creating major headaches for yourself.

                            I've seen them installed before around here when customers had older high pressure units and swapped to a new lower pressure one, and they are a pain and can cause surging all by themselves... The only other time we have to install them is because the pressure of the meter output requires it.
                            Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
                            Zillerelectric.com
                            888-2-ZILLER

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by indianapaul View Post
                              Chris,
                              You mentioned in another post on hunting/surging 22kw generators a special fuel pin where the dealer has to request and get a control number for it. I mentioned this to my dealer and they said they checked with Generac and they didn't know anything about it. Do you have a contact name at Generac that I can give them. I have been fighting this issue for over a year. Thanks.
                              I'm sorry but I don't. It's just the tech service department. They should know about it if your dealer is actually calling them.
                              Ziller Electric - Service Manager, Lead Technician
                              Zillerelectric.com
                              888-2-ZILLER

                              Comment

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